UEFI Build requests - suggested help

[Coastie]

I keep seeing posts about UEFI build request. Jerry has said no. So here is a suggestion that might help if like me you want to get rid of Windows completely like I did when I bought a new computer.

I found in the Help Manual a link to dual booting with Windows http://www.freecinema2022.gq/manual/start.html#uefi . Here is a simpler video on how to change from UEFI to Legacy Boot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmMLoYmvNyg
If this or a similar video could be placed on the download page http://www.freecinema2022.gq/download.html before or after the video on how to install Linux Lite 3.0, it might help. 

[Valtam]

Great idea, I'll add this video link the Help Manual. Thanks Coastie

[Ottawagrant]

Thank you for posting this. This will be very helpful for the next new/used computer that I buy.

[Monkeyman]

I know this is an old thread so I hope someone will reply.

I removed LL (3.x) from my desktop when I rebuilt it as the new mobo uses UEFI.  (My laptop is still running LL 3.4.)  While I understand that LL isn't now adapted for UEFI and I understand that I can (I assume) switch to Legacy mode, what I don't understand is what that will affect.

What does UEFI do that BIOS doesn't (and vice versa)?  I would certainly consider reinstalling LL on my desktop but I don't know what (if anything) I'd lose.  It might be worth it (to me) and it might not but I'm not going to do anything without knowing the possible consequences.

(Yes.  I've done a search and don't see anything that I can easily understand.)

[m654321]

(1)  While I understand that LL isn't now adapted for UEFI and I understand that I can (I assume) switch to Legacy mode,
      what I don't understand is what that will affect.
(2) What does UEFI do that BIOS doesn't (and vice versa)?
    (Yes.  I've done a search and don't see anything that I can easily understand.)

[member=540]Monkeyman[/member]
I'm really glad you asked these questions, as the whole area of UEFI is hazy for me (& many others too)  :-\
This is despite having personally set-up a tutorial for a UEFI dual-boot for LL2.x / Windows OS - the core of it is based largely on Nehal J Wani's work with my own detailed comments and observations added: https://www.freecinema2022.gq/forums/tutor...y-enabled/

I'll share some of my "UEFI experiences" with you (below) - LOL, it sounds like alien encounters - that I had while experimenting with setups on a UEFI laptop, an Asus G750JS - see setup[1] in footnote below.

I was only able to install distros in Legacy/CSM mode (UEFI & Secure Boot disabled), if I used an HDD, where the use of a DOS (MBR) formatted disk is implicit.  Installation on an SSD in Legacy/CSM mode (again MBR format implicit) didn't work as, each time I tried this, I'd get a red notification about a "wrong signature key" or something of that sort. It seemed that when I used an SSD for an install, the laptop expected a GPT format not an MBR one.  Consequently, I can only run SSDs on the Asus G750 for UEFI set-ups only. I don't know if this SSD behaviour is typical of other UEFI computers, as I wasn't able to find any mention of it on the internet ...


Of course, I didn't want to go back to using HDDs after having tasted the performance boost with SSDs, so I changed to a UEFI supported distro in setup[1] - I'm now using Manjaro 17 on this laptop, though it is with much regret I'm unable to use LL on it. Like quite a few LL users on the forum, I'd warmly welcome an official UEFI release of LL, so that it could be used on newer computers. However, it's unclear whether Jerry is able to continue with the UEFI project, owing to the obvious constraints of time & energy involved in that ...   

Mike

[WytWun]

[member=540]Monkeyman[/member],

My understanding is as follows...

The Legacy BIOS (aka CSM or compatibility support module) vs UEFI divide actually encompasses two concepts:
- disk partitioning
- booting an operating system

UEFI firmware will only handle disks with GPT partitioning, while Legacy BIOS can generally use either MBR or GPT partitioning.  UEFI also insists on certain information and software being on a disk in a specific partition (known as the System partition or ESP) to use for booting an OS (i.e. the primary OS boot loader).  UEFI also introduces the concept of signed components used for the boot process:  Secure Boot.  While most UEFI firmware still supports disabling secure boot, it is unclear how long this will continue.

Regarding switching between CSM and UEFI booting:  this can be feasible if a disk is carefully GPT partitioned, however the two modes require different O/S boot loader (e.g. GRUB) configurations so switching is not necessarily easy or trivial.  It is probably easier to make the switch with open source OSes than proprietary ones though, and some boot loaders (e.g. GRUB) can be used for either mode when appropriately configured.  Also, at some point Microsoft is likely to stop supporting installing Windows in Legacy mode which may affect your choice.

Advantages of UEFI:
- UEFI has its own shell and can store user-supplied information in non-volatile memory
- UEFI firmware can be 32 or 64 bit natively, escaping some of the limits of the primary boot loader in the Legacy BIOS which still has 16 bit code in the boot phase
- UEFI booting tends to be faster than Legacy booting, because of the removal of 16 bit BIOS routines from the process

There are other advantages to be gained from using GPT disk partitioning rather than MBR (also aka Legacy) partitioning:
- support for partitions > 2.2TB
- support for up to 127 primary partitions

If your motherboard or system's firmware easily allows selection of the mode and you don't need the increased partition size or number of partitions for GPT, it currently doesn't matter which you choose if you can install the OSes you're interested in.

I have succeeded with installing LL 3.4 in a UEFI boot environment on an Intel NUC which supported both modes, guided by m654321's tutorial, so it is possible but it was time consuming.  Unfortunately a lot of newer laptops, especially less expensive models, are dispensing with CSM support so figuring out the UEFI installation situation will become more important as time goes on.

[Monkeyman]

Whew!  That's a lot of technical stuff I just don't think I'm up to.  I installed LL on my desktop when it had the old mobo (without UEFI).  That was simple although there was a slight learning curve.  I moved to LL BECAUSE there wasn't much of a learning curve (which is, of course, one of the reasons for LL in the first place).  With this sort of learning curve/technical know-how, it's probably better if I stick to Win7 on the desktop.  I still have LL 3.4 on my laptop and plan on keeping it there.  (No problems with an SSD.)

Thanks for comments.  If/when Jerry decides to do a LL build compatible with UEFI, I'll install LL then.

[trinidad]

I've thought about this for long time, and it really is a philosophical issue, MS/Intel extortion really. What is really needed is a simple 32bit live kernel parsing utility that can be booted from a USB. Linux systems could then be installed without grub to partitions and booted from the kernel without messing with UEFI or Legacy at all. There are rescue utilities that can do this, and live Ubuntu disks with rEFInd installed can, and they can even create CSMs in some cases, but they are all full of unneccesary (linux for dummies) junk. If the kernel is installed without grub it doesn't matter to the disk whether or not it's Legacy or UEFI and it's really not Legacy anyway on a GPT disk, just an ext4 partition) If the kernel parser can find it, it can boot it.

TC

[bitsnpcs]

I noticed recently this https://libreboot.org/  there seems to be a third alternative for some systems.

[Valtam]

There is nothing wrong with BIOS. If it ain't broke... UEFI is an unecessary imposition on people. The benefits of UEFI are trivial. Legacy BIOS does exactly what it is supposed to do. /end-imo

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